mole
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 7
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:24 pm Post subject: why hospital sells to industry
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if a clinic is run by a hospital it must meet hospital standards but if the hospital sells their in hospital clinic to corps. the corps do not have to meet hospital standards as far as treatment or patient care or training of workers thus saving a lot of money. in fact the hospital gets lot of money up front the director of the clinic becomes an officer of the corp. so every ones wins except the patient. this is for discussion only.
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Pollyanna
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 8:49 am Post subject: You are absolutely correct
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<
>It is correct and many of the hospitals get 10%of the profit for selling!
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Marty
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 160
Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 3:35 am Post subject: Next Question
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Now I suppose by being opposed to reimbursement we can encourage more hospitals and non-profits to sell out to the dialysis chains. In our area just a year ago 1 of the major hospitals sold out their dialysis unit to Fresenius. I doubt this would have happened had their been this "hugh" profit in having the center.
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patient
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 137
Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:29 am Post subject: sellout
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Just wait until the major players like FMC and DaVita decide to acquire some of these non-profits that offer home service. I can assure you that they will cancel the home program in order to place patients in the center.
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Still dont get it
Joined: 22 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:09 am Post subject: ?
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You still dont get it.
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mole
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 7
Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 12:10 pm Post subject: hospitals selling to corps
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because it cost a lot less to run a corp dialysis unit they can afford to pay the hospital a good price for the patients and give the hospital a percentage of the profits plus they can pay the head doctor a salary because they are not covered by the starke law. they can fire most of the nurses and replace them with untrained techs cut the run time. in fact they can cut the costs almost in half. if you think giving more money will improve patient care with out standards of care get your head out of the sand.
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Marty
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 160
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 2:50 am Post subject: Made Point
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You just made my point. There isn't enough money in dialysis to make the non-profit centers and hospitals care rather they have the centers or not. So selling out to the chains is lucrative and the chain are anxious to buy as they have the means to cut dialysis cost with short staffing etc., cheap supplies etc. and the more they are squeezed the cheaper they will get. In the USA $$$ play a role in all aspects of health and life and unfortunately it comes 1st.
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true
Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:37 am Post subject: re: marty
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www.appeal-democrat.com/a.../news5.txt<
><
>or they will just close the doors. Marty it is shocking that people who say they care about CKD patients would advocate for cuts in funding. Inflaiton is happening every day unless that is addressed funbding is cut every day.
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mole
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:34 am Post subject: standards
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i am not for cutting the funding. standards should go along with increased funding. giving better treatment cuts the total cost of treatment. but to dump more money on the street with out standards and accurate data will do the patient no good only increase the profits. other countriesdo dialysis for a lot less total costs. we spend more on health care than any other country but have the worst out come.
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Think
Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:53 am Post subject: JUst like the educational system
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More $$$ didn't fix that system either.
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No Fix
Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:21 pm Post subject: Money
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I don't think money is going to fix the problems that already exists. I just don't want to see things deterioriate any further. I believe whole heartedly in the fight for accountability; I just don't think withholding reimbursements well have an impact on accountablility and more than likely will slow any progress in making things better. Better staffing is needed; better supplies are needed; trained techs are needed, home programs are needed these cost $$$.
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read
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 3
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:30 pm Post subject: look at the balance sheets
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the industry is already making millions. check out the financials.
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read
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 3
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:37 pm Post subject: People who care
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for the patients are only worried about getting more money, not about cleaning up an industry which is not accountable.<
>I think it is the other way around.
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Whose stating cuts
Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:47 pm Post subject: I dont think your still getting this
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This has nothing to do with cuts. The money needs to be held. I say no increases until they are made accountable in order to receive more. Until then nothing will change, it will filter down to the patient care. It never will, until they are held to a standards of care and accountable. If they want more money they need to show that patients are receiving not the minimum of care. They are not even upholding that. Unlike other business, the government is paying this bill....! <
>These companies have the ability to manuplate their policies such as the administration of EPO.<
>Talk about caring for patients, the only discussion is throw more money. They are always screaming for more. How many millions do they need. Let them cut back on bonus' and salaries of fhe Ivory tower. Dont give me your BS about them needing money and not willing to take care
of the patients.<
>Look at each companies quarterly profits, it has never gone to patients, the money was meant for care. So dont dare use that argument that we dont care. Lets put this way, you arent out for the regular patient in the units. That is what caring is about.
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high road
Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:22 pm Post subject: Reimbursement lie
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It is really something to listen to the type person who thinks $$$ solves everything. But isn't that the way it is in life? Most people put their faithand trust in $$$! <
><
>$$$ can not make anything work right if there is not true faith and character behind it. <
><
>So, sorry, but some people will not bend a knee to corruption or make deals with cheaters. We're not afraid of the bullies. We're taking back what they have stolen. They don't deserve more reimbursments. What they deserve is a prison sentence!!!
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Low Road
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:38 am Post subject: Interesting Post
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High Road sure do hope with your thinking you don't end up dead right.
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Curious
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 39
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:43 am Post subject: ELEMENTARY THINKING
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Elementary thinking is what they doing with the money issue.
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exactly
Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 4
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:52 am Post subject: Thinking for all of us
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Elementary thinking by the privilaged few for the masses.
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answer due
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:00 am Post subject: FROM CMS TO GRASSLEY
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The response to Grassley's letter is due today.
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Curious
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 39
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:11 am Post subject: say what
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The part that is not gotten here is that the industry makes lots of money. The composite rates pay for the care. Add on top of that the fact that they have increased their bills from injectable drugs and even bill heprin in many clinics. <
>When I worked for non-profit, we got profit sharing checks twice a year. It was billing Medicare $3500.00 in 98 and now some industries are up to $21,000 in some cases in 2003. BUt the $3500.00 has gone up due to the fact that they bill so they can write some of this off. Just remember you the patient, if you have insurance they are billing them that high rate.. Not your problem? It is when you may only have a million dollar policy. Many patients are told, why are you worried? We will write off your $156,000 (your 20% copay), that was a 7 month bill. Other patients who are questioning their actions on the billing are told to be quiet or you will pay the extra. In some cases patients are made to fill out credit reports and assets.<
>As a worker you learn fast that you are given that extra patient and you know it isnt safe. It isnt about medicine it is about profit. They generate alot.<
>Patients have been told that if they complain to the state that they will shut them down, and where will you go? So keep quiet and let them kill you in the units.<
>This industry has not only used patients to profit off of, but have scared them and manipulated them to ask for more money. I feel that is criminal, but you will always see those who will buy the corporate line. They have lobbiest that are powerful to manipulate the Senatorsand etc. But many patients resent having to sign a letter asking for more money and the freedom to refuse is not one they want to chance.<
>Knowing this industry as one who has worked the trenches and advocate daily for patients, this industry has shown it is less than honorable. I will not be an industry shill and ask for more money, as they do not want to clean up or be accountable. It is throwing the money in the street and in many cases it wont go into patient care, but only as more cash flow for the companies. <
>Get rid of the ESRD Networks, they will generate an extra $28 million for patient care. Does the industry want to lose their protection of self policing? I bet not.
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Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:05 am Post subject: Re: say what
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You lost me curious. Here is the Federal side of the revenue stream from MedPAC staffer Nancy Ray?s
ief to the Payment Advisory Commission during their public meeting on Thursday, December 12, 2002 (for the full transcript go here:<
>www.medpac.gov/public_meetings/transcripts/12%2002%20combinedtranscripts.pdf<
>?...<
>Just to
iefly review ... They're primarily two revenue streams that facilities are paid for furnishing provider services. The composite rate payment cover the outpatient dialysis session and this prospective payment system was implemented in 1983 and covers many of the services associated with the treatment including nursing supplies, equipment, and specific labs and drugs. On average, facilities receive about $130 per treatment and facilities are paid for furnishing up to three hemodialysis sessions per week. <
><
>The other major stream of revenues that facilities are paid are for injectable drugs. Notably, the composite rate bundle does not include certain drugs that were not available in 1983. These drugs include erythropoietin to treat anemia, IV iron, and vitamin D analogs, to name a few. What does Medicare pay for these drugs? For Epo, Congress sets the payment rate, and that is $10 per 1,000 units. All other separately billable drugs are 95 percent of AWP. <
><
>To review the services provided by freestanding dialysis facilities in 2001. In 2001, there were about 3,300 facilities and they treated roughly 220,000 beneficiaries. Estimated spending for dialysis services is about $3.3 billion and for injectable drugs was about $2.3 billion. ?<
><
>So total Federal spending to dialysis units in 2001 was $5.5 Billion for 220,000 CKD consumers, or $25,000 per patient. Assuming 156 treatments a year that works out to Medicare paying a little over $160 per treatment to providers, total. If the total amount spent on the Networks went to ESRD Medicare beneficiaries another 82 cents would be available per treatment.<
><
>All profits are generated from private pay patients.<
>
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Do I owe
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:12 am Post subject: What's this game???
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Can someone tell me what's going on? I am a Medicare/Medicaid patient. I relocated to another state. The first week I was there I went to Medicare and Medicaid, gave them my change of address and got everything switched to the new state. When I started going to my new unit, after a time, I recieved a bill saying I owed about $500. I immdiately called them and told them I get state aid and they said well someone must of forgot to bill it. <
><
>The next month I got the same bill again, so I called them again. It was the same story.<
><
>This kept repeating itself each month and I called about 4 times total. The last time I called I was told it was in error and I shouldnt get anymore bills. But its been 2 years now and I still get the bill! <
><
>I then took it to my SW. She came back and told me it's my responsibility as it takes some time when you transfer from another state for state aid to go into effect. Now don't tell me that state aid patients are required to pay the copay when they transfer to a new state until
the paperwork goes through.<
><
>Why would the company bill me every month for 2 years???
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Contact
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:16 am Post subject: dialyisethics.org
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<
>Give them a call or email arlene@dialysisethics.org<
>
