Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: Time will Tell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a while I thought as you did that the patients weren't going to see things differently or change. They just didn't appear to want to be responsible for their own dialysis. I "think" fear has a lot to do with it. I know when I decided to take on home dialysis for dad it took alot of courage I didn't know I had. But what I have noticed is that the program we are associated with has had a big increase in patients wanting to go the home dialysis route. I can only connect this change with patients hearing and becoming more educated on the benefits on home dialysis. I also think patients becoming aware of other patients doing home hemo for years without going back in-center has told them that it can't be all that bad. I also think hearing about the lives of patients who are at home and getting more dialysis is also a motivating factor. A center closer to our home is starting a home program this year. They have obtained their license etc. they are in the process of building a training room. I think one of the motivating factors for them was seeing my father. When dad was in the hospital for something else we met with 3 nephrologist connected with the hospital. They were all amazing surprised at dad's labs and amazing surprised we had been at home so long. And amazing surprised at dad's age. I had 1 nephrologist say to me if your dad were on in-center treatments he wouldn't be alive now. I don't think every patient will want to be a candidate for more dialysis. However, I do truly believe the average patient will start mulling it over in their mind when they see the results of the studies being done. I also think alot of nephrologist and nurses and dialysis tech's will start thinking themselves of providing more dialysis as more and more the population grows and articles of studies are printed. Although this site is about making in-center changes, I think that will come along also with the growing knowledge patients obtain. If I have experienced one thing during this journey of ours is that it takes along time
for staff as well as patients to adapt to changes in thinking. You always feel safer staying where your at. Remember when the rule was rotate the sites. Now what do you hear buttonholes work good and so far patients who have them aren't reporting of any more complications with their fistula 's than the ones who's sites are still being rotated. The idea of re-use with dialyzers is also changing. I think we have at least reached the point where professionals and others realize that it's time to think about changes. But I sure can't predict how long it will take for things to change.
**********************************************************************************
georgia peach
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: nogotiating withair america
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I cannot believe the ignorance of some people that post regarding the good work Arlene is doing. It is obvious from the language that these people are paid to look over this site and respond so hatefully to the comments made by patients and loved ones of patients. First of all, charcator is such an important part of being a caregiver, wheather you do it out of love of that patient or you are paid to do it as a nurse or technition. I see little charactor here. I believe that the standards in the health field have dropped to such a degree than anyone can be hired, and the worse you are the greater your chance is to be hired in a dialysis unit. No glamour girls here, no tender hearts either!Private business..run on taxpayers dollars. Let me ask this question. Why is $12,000. charged every month for care when Medicare only pays $2,000. How is $10,000 written off? And where does the write-off go...perhaps taken as a loss on taxes? Hmpp. The taxpayers get screwed again! Yes, this is a rightous business alright and from the posts I read by employees they have the right people working for them. Another question- Who makes up this "pie in the sky" billing? Talk about creativity. This whole business is a disgrace.l
Keep up the good work Arlene. Remember, we are not out for revenge...we want JUSTICE!!!!!
**********************************************************************************
guest
Guest
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: DEO nazis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God, it's been a long time since this board has had enough activity to warrant a reappearance of the DEO Nazi censors. It's been such a dead zone, because of their previous censorship, that it wasn't an issue. They are back though folks. Only anti-dialysis opinions need be posted on this site.
**********************************************************************************
leadsag
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 263
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:25 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IF you want pro dialysis industry look at dialysispatients.org Better known as
Welcome To DaVita Patient Citizens....
Last edited by leadsag on Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
**********************************************************************************
helpmate
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:38 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, a post from someone with some common sense. Leadsag, I could not have said it better myself. As the name implies, this board is Dialysis Ethics.org Enough said!!!!
**********************************************************************************
guest
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:56 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sir, I don't want anything, but posts are disappearing. Just leave em up and let people post opinions which are not in lockstep agreement with DEO.
**********************************************************************************
Guest 2
Guest
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: Welcome
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think the question is ... who is welcome. I think the people posting on this site should have reason to believe changes are needed. If you think dialysis can't improve then you really can't contribute much so why bother coming here to pick a fight?
**********************************************************************************
leadsag
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 263
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: point
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see anyone disputing that yes medicare is paying for the treatments. Shouldn't the gov't get what they pay for a good high quality level of care? I think that is the point. Sometimes they don't. That is the issue that needs addressing
**********************************************************************************
Guest
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The money being spent to subsidize the for profits at one time went to care on the floor and its was grade A. In other words patients benifits have paid for that in the past, it was only in the past twenty years of so when patients were allowed to be bought and sold that quality plummetted. The fact is that patients paid for and built this industry with their blood, bodies and benefits. Why shouldn't patients own the clinics? We could certainly pool the expertise from among our own to form our own board of directors. Then providers would have to compete (something they don't do know) for patient revenues and approval in order to provide services.
**********************************************************************************
another guest
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/>You paid with your bodies and blood only because you were unfortunate enough to become ill. Given a choice, you would not have chosen this course. Because you fell victim to an illness, you should own the clinic? That's absurd. The real fact is that taxpayer has always carried you and always will carry you. I don't begrudge you for that, but don't make it more than it is, and don't make it into some magical qualification for ownership.
**********************************************************************************
Sister Sue
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: to Don
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it never ceases to amaze me and I am sure all the other regulars here how you happen to magically appear from time to time to hurl insults at us and try to mislead the newcomers here that we are all just whiners and moaners with nothing better to do then go after the "industry" . Do you realize how you appear to the newcomers when you show your below average intelligence with name calling.... I do believe that you only show up here when 1. your bored, 2. you have no life 3. someone pissed in your Wheaties this am and 4. the truth is closer to being out ...hmmmmm
**********************************************************************************
Jfwagg
Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 20
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: Old Bag?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been away for awhile and wasn't keeping up with the site.
As I read these mostly inspiring posts, I am keeping track of them and planning out a full response (which will come soon) but when I read such disgusting posts such as Arlene being and "old bag" (I had to quickly respond) please get a grip on yourself!
I know Arlene, I have agreed and disagreed with her on various subjects, talked to her on the phone (in jest, that isn't always so pleasant because she loves to scream) but to go down that road is an insult to me and I hope others who have been around this site for many years.
Now I have to go back and finish reading this extremely important and forward looking discussion.
But, hey, let's keep the personal drudgery out, heh? This is a serious subject and I see all sides to the debate. Been there done that, I will be back soon.
**********************************************************************************
Sister Sue
Guest
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you said it all when you said, you have "CONTROL" that is what is so bleep important to all of you which of course includes CONTROL of the $ too,,, ah please tell me again that you are not INDUSTRY :lol: perhaps I picked the wrong cereal for your morning accident, hmmm might be the given breakfest of choice Raisan Bran...
It never ceases to amaze me that you and others of your "intelligent" INDUSTRY nature are the first to hurl insults, name calling etc at people and single them out and I am talking about individuals that are not in the Governement population , as we all do that at one time or another,,.. At least the majority of people that are with DE don't stoop to that level....but then we are all smart enough here to consider the source that they came from...
as far as the toady word, never was me that used it in the first place ...duh must of really made you mad that you got so confused with who said it.....pity
**********************************************************************************
Sister Sue
Guest
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: another guest
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am just more human compassionate and by far less greedy then you are. Remember who thru the first insults here. I am sure you will have to go back and read what you wrote versus what I did, but you started this one with your insults towards Arlene and the all of the patients. 30 years plus buddy with the Dialysis community which I am sure is way more then you have had. Back when most of the techs were RNS, and trained way more then they are now. I am not saying that there aren't good techs now who are generally concerned for the patients, only back then the compassion/concern was a whole lot more. The bottom line back then wasn't the almighty $ they didn't count the number of patients and times that by the $ to see how much the units were making.. I happen to see both sides with the situation, family members on Dialysis as well as family members in the medical profession who will complain about patients attitudes.. Best way to look at the situation is to do a role reversal, and perhaps more would understand each other,
As far as the insults their buddy can take as well as dish them out. Your bleep right I am better at it then you are probably, besides you started all of this when you came to this as you put it "insignificant internet message board" and thru the name calling.. apparently it must be of extreme importance to you since you return time and time again...
